Post by Artaxerxes/SweetIrony on May 26, 2007 2:30:37 GMT -5
omg longest post evar. 
Random comments on the thread so far:
Hec - You say the TT has anything that is technologically possible... who says the elixer of life is possible?
PR - I like your argument that he is just bound to make a mistake at some point... though I don't quite understand about making time travel impossible and locking everything in. Wouldn't this create a paradox? Or... something?
Lachryma - Anyone who spells traveller with one l is gay. And yes, I am talking about almost all of America.
Hec - "he will act exactly the same way he did the 'first time around,' because this is the first time around" See, this is why I <3 Hec so much. Why do people have such a hard time grasping this??
PR mentions "old" SF. I once managed to get away with writing an entire history research paper on the stuff... it was fantastic.
PR - I don't think free will means you are the master of your fate in that you can choose any fate for yourself. It's more about being able to make choices, isn't it? Presumably those choices will affect your fate, but that doesn't mean you can bring about any fate you want.
"Don't send yourself this note!" I love it! It's like a sign that says, "Keep off this sign"
Vecusum - You confuse me. I stopped trying to understand your post.
Going off of something danr said... does the TT have to tell himself EVERYTHING to do? What shirt to wear? Whether to take one or two steps at a time? Which seat to sit in at the movies? I mean, these things could be important, or else not, but how would he know?
One argument I can think of against the TT being God... the TT is still stuck in time and God is presumably "outside" it?
Before answering whether the TT is God or not, I would want to know a) Did he create/cause the universe? b) Did anyone?
Time Travelling FICTION!!!
My favorite answer to the Grandfather Clause has to be in a little book called Time Tunnel. However, I don't really want to tell you guys about it because you should just all get a copy and read it.
The whole question of the nature of time, whether the past can be changed, and first versus second times around.... this is what I like to call "Back to the Future vs. 12 Monkeys". And while BttF is great, 12 Monkeys is amazing and beautiful. If you haven't seen it, I beg you, go now!!!
In order to not give much away I'm going to be vague here.... part of this discussion reminded me of the wonderful book by Douglas Adams, Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency. I recommend you all read it, several times. I also recommend some knowledge of Coleridge before you start.
Seminar
At UCSD I took a 1 unit seminar on the Nature of Time! It was fantastically useless and wonderful. My professor, Craig Callender, told us he always hopes his future self will walk into one of his time seminars, but so far it hasn't happened yet.
I took so many useless seminars... Stargazing... The Slide Rule... Technology and the Future of Music... Math in the Movies... Quantum Information Processing... Computer Vision in Film... They were fun, and they satisfied my science/math cravings! ;D
My List
I have a list of things to do when I get a time machine. One of them is to kick Descartes... another is to go to my sister's Color Guard championships again since we had an extra ticket that went unused. I actually scanned the audience at the time, but didn't see my future self anywhere. Actually the main point of having this list is to see the looks on people's faces when I say, "Oh hey, I'd better add that to my list of things I'm going to do when I get a time machine!"
Pacer and his future self
Ok so this guy I know, Pacer (not his real name, that's his band nickname), was at Marie Callender's with some other guys, waiting for a table. This old man walked in, limped up to the counter, and bought a pie. As he limped back to the door he stopped, turned, looked right at Pacer, and said, "This is what you have to look forward to!" Then he walked out, and the guys noticed he limped on the same leg Pacer has a knee problem on. Then they realized he also kind of looked like an older version of Pacer. So from then on they've told the story as "Pacer meeting his future self." The big question this raises is, of course, why does a time traveller need to buy pie in the past?
Chrononauts
Personally, I LOVE the idea of time travel, but I don't really think it's possible. However, that doesn't stop me from loving the game Chrononauts!!! It's a card game where you can change the past and face the consequences to the timeline, collect artifacts from the past and future, repair paradoxes, receive memos from your future self.... everyone should get a copy, I promise you'll love it!
Yeah, that's pretty much my post! Sorry it was so long and random.
Random comments on the thread so far:
Hec - You say the TT has anything that is technologically possible... who says the elixer of life is possible?
PR - I like your argument that he is just bound to make a mistake at some point... though I don't quite understand about making time travel impossible and locking everything in. Wouldn't this create a paradox? Or... something?
Lachryma - Anyone who spells traveller with one l is gay. And yes, I am talking about almost all of America.
Hec - "he will act exactly the same way he did the 'first time around,' because this is the first time around" See, this is why I <3 Hec so much. Why do people have such a hard time grasping this??
PR mentions "old" SF. I once managed to get away with writing an entire history research paper on the stuff... it was fantastic.
PR - I don't think free will means you are the master of your fate in that you can choose any fate for yourself. It's more about being able to make choices, isn't it? Presumably those choices will affect your fate, but that doesn't mean you can bring about any fate you want.
"Don't send yourself this note!" I love it! It's like a sign that says, "Keep off this sign"
Vecusum - You confuse me. I stopped trying to understand your post.
Going off of something danr said... does the TT have to tell himself EVERYTHING to do? What shirt to wear? Whether to take one or two steps at a time? Which seat to sit in at the movies? I mean, these things could be important, or else not, but how would he know?
One argument I can think of against the TT being God... the TT is still stuck in time and God is presumably "outside" it?
Before answering whether the TT is God or not, I would want to know a) Did he create/cause the universe? b) Did anyone?
Time Travelling FICTION!!!
My favorite answer to the Grandfather Clause has to be in a little book called Time Tunnel. However, I don't really want to tell you guys about it because you should just all get a copy and read it.
The whole question of the nature of time, whether the past can be changed, and first versus second times around.... this is what I like to call "Back to the Future vs. 12 Monkeys". And while BttF is great, 12 Monkeys is amazing and beautiful. If you haven't seen it, I beg you, go now!!!
In order to not give much away I'm going to be vague here.... part of this discussion reminded me of the wonderful book by Douglas Adams, Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency. I recommend you all read it, several times. I also recommend some knowledge of Coleridge before you start.
Seminar
At UCSD I took a 1 unit seminar on the Nature of Time! It was fantastically useless and wonderful. My professor, Craig Callender, told us he always hopes his future self will walk into one of his time seminars, but so far it hasn't happened yet.
I took so many useless seminars... Stargazing... The Slide Rule... Technology and the Future of Music... Math in the Movies... Quantum Information Processing... Computer Vision in Film... They were fun, and they satisfied my science/math cravings! ;D
My List
I have a list of things to do when I get a time machine. One of them is to kick Descartes... another is to go to my sister's Color Guard championships again since we had an extra ticket that went unused. I actually scanned the audience at the time, but didn't see my future self anywhere. Actually the main point of having this list is to see the looks on people's faces when I say, "Oh hey, I'd better add that to my list of things I'm going to do when I get a time machine!"
Pacer and his future self
Ok so this guy I know, Pacer (not his real name, that's his band nickname), was at Marie Callender's with some other guys, waiting for a table. This old man walked in, limped up to the counter, and bought a pie. As he limped back to the door he stopped, turned, looked right at Pacer, and said, "This is what you have to look forward to!" Then he walked out, and the guys noticed he limped on the same leg Pacer has a knee problem on. Then they realized he also kind of looked like an older version of Pacer. So from then on they've told the story as "Pacer meeting his future self." The big question this raises is, of course, why does a time traveller need to buy pie in the past?
Chrononauts
Personally, I LOVE the idea of time travel, but I don't really think it's possible. However, that doesn't stop me from loving the game Chrononauts!!! It's a card game where you can change the past and face the consequences to the timeline, collect artifacts from the past and future, repair paradoxes, receive memos from your future self.... everyone should get a copy, I promise you'll love it!
Yeah, that's pretty much my post! Sorry it was so long and random.
