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Post by Lachryma on Feb 28, 2007 17:59:46 GMT -5
So, someone did do the math. Interesting.
And I don't think the psychological aspect matters a lot. Those are just alts they check every once in a while, so people will have no issues with holding NTs.
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Post by iamrisen on Feb 28, 2007 18:24:39 GMT -5
How many of those zombies are ferals? How many zombies are going to actually get the message? How many zombie players are actually going to be interested in such a plan? How many of those "zombies" are merely dead humans waiting for a revive? Most of them, a few hundred, a little less than a hundred so far, and a bunch. That's why I only figured for a third. Clearing 23 harmanz out of an EHB building is A LOT easier than clearing 23 zombies out of a ransacked building. And how many of those needles go to rotters and death cultists? The number of dedicated survivors in the game is limited by the number of dedicated survivor players. Make a zombie like mine into a survivor and you will lose, on balance, about three or four survivors. You can create non-consensual zombies (they're called "Mrh-cows"), resulting in no problems for the zombies, but creating a non-consensual survivor causes a few probelems. If the Hand of Kevan were to suddenly thrust a needle into the neck of every zombie in Malton, you would see a rush of PKing and GKing like nothing you ever saw before. The end result would probably be fewer standing survivors left after 24 hours than what you started with. Good luck getting them to do that. Have you ever tried to get survivors to move from one corner of a mall to another, less crowded one? Once the survivors hear that NTs are being targetted, they won't sleep there anymore for fear of getting killed. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's standard operating procedure already. I'm one. That's twenty-five zombies. Nine more people like me and we've got a zombie dedicated to every NT in Malton.
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Post by Specialist290 on Feb 28, 2007 20:57:10 GMT -5
I'll concede that you've certainly done your math well. Very true. However, the number of zombies engaged in this "clearing out" is limited by the AP problem, and once an organized horde leaves the area, what is there to prevent a very large and/or determined group from clearing said building despite said difficulty? Again, very true. Random revives and failure to scrutinize profiles, unfortunately, are both problems in and of themselves and cause major problems for the city. Still, a majority of those problems could be prevented if people were more willing to follow proper protocols--and yes, I know that that's likely to be an over-optimistic pipe-dream I'm sure that that's an overgeneralization. Many survivors (particularly the inexperienced ones) probably will "head for the hills" at the first sign of trouble, but then you also have those who realize that fleeing would play into the zombies' hands, and therefore act as "meat shields" for the others; you have your dedicated centralized revival teams such as the YRC, who will literally defend their revive points to the death (and beyond); and then you have your reckless thrill-seekers, like the Channel 4 News Team, who simply go "where the action is." There's one other important fact I should point out. I've been monitoring the stats page for a while, and the zombies are once again outnumbering the humans after several months at a roughly 60:40 balance. There is no real need for the zombies to resort to this kind of tactic in order to win, and until there is, several zombies will not bother to consider it. Finally, using several alts to pursue the same plan, while not technically "zerging" within the original or strictest sense of the word, can most certainly be construed as a violation of the "Separate Existences" Clause in the FAQ. I'm not saying that it's theoretically impossible, but that it's practically improbable. (Incidentally, there's one possibility everyone's overlooked--Kevan bringing back the 1 AP syringe in case of such an emergency. Unlikely, but then, who knows? )
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Post by Padre Romero on Feb 28, 2007 21:49:10 GMT -5
In late april of last year, I launched a rather ambitious project. Using lots of time and resources, I managed to get a little less than 1,000 survivors, from most major groups of malton, to do something completely and totally unimportant, I talked each of them into launching a flare from a specific location (Some had far more than one)
It took me two months to mobilize this many people, people, using every trick i knew (I'm an advertising major), from Viral advertising to writing a small backstory for the event (Wiki the "Extravaganza"). Dispite all this, I could only snag the attention of what was, at that time, 1/20th of malton's survivor population.
the biggest flaw in this plan is, if it's not done at nearly EXACTLY the same time, at EVERY location in Malton, there will be a quick recovery... it's just not possible, with the current game environment, to mobilize 15,000 zombies. The biggest thing to consider is, Most people do not play like you do. This is true, regardless of your style of play, and it's the hardest thing for a faction leader to grasp.
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Post by iamrisen on Feb 28, 2007 21:52:14 GMT -5
Very true. However, the number of zombies engaged in this "clearing out" is limited by the AP problem, and once an organized horde leaves the area, what is there to prevent a very large and/or determined group from clearing said building despite said difficulty? Zombies have the most efficient attack in the game: maxed claws. An organized horde can smash cades and rush zombies into buildings so that as much AP as possible is spent clawing flesh and as little as possible is spent clawing barricades. And once they leave, a contingent of alts rolls in to hold the ground. All of these organized survivor groups have been defeated before. They can be defeated again. Especially if they don't know which NT needs guardin'. We're on the 30 yard line, about to run in for the touchdown. This is precisely the right time to do this. The survivors are reeling all over. Zerging is the only kind of multi abuse the game seems to recognize. As long as we're keeping our alts apart, they're leading separate existences. I've considered the possibility of Kevan implementing, umm, *extraordinary measures* in response to this, because we are looking to end the game. Way I see it, if we can force Kevan's hand in this manner, we've won. I mean, if the survivors can't survive without divine intervention, that's gotta be a victory.
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Post by Padre Romero on Feb 28, 2007 21:53:54 GMT -5
Also, keep in mind that if EVERY NT building is stocked to the brim with 23 zombies, there won't be zombies left to actually kill survivors in Malton, so the point is kinda moot.
EDIT: By that logic, survivors have already won...Kevan has had to equalize the game several time in the past because survivors or zombies got too good...I'm not saying that zombies currently have some kind of edge over the survivors...but that is what everyone will be saying if you pull this off.
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Post by iamrisen on Feb 28, 2007 22:37:45 GMT -5
Also, keep in mind that if EVERY NT building is stocked to the brim with 23 zombies, there won't be zombies left to actually kill survivors in Malton, so the point is kinda moot. No, with 23 zombies in every building, there are still 10,000 zombies left to kill survivors. 23 zombies assumes 1/3 of the zombies pack the NTs. This doesn't even factor in alts. And they can still patrol the areas around their NTs; they just have to end their day maintaining the ransack. Meh, fair enough. Zombies have an endgame, survivors don't. Given the way the game is currently structured, zombies can win. Survivors can't.
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Post by jleggitt on Feb 28, 2007 22:40:48 GMT -5
Just as an aside what's to stop the Pro survivor population from creating a bunch of alts that they want and trying to retake the NT from simplying creating a bunch of alts and mass charging the NT until they manage to take one back and start cranking out as many revives as they can for those moments that NT would be operational.
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Post by iamrisen on Feb 28, 2007 22:53:30 GMT -5
...I'm sorry, I couldn't understand that. Would you mind clarifying?
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Post by Padre Romero on Feb 28, 2007 23:01:12 GMT -5
Meh, fair enough. Zombies have an endgame, survivors don't. Given the way the game is currently structured, zombies can win. Survivors can't. This causes a lot of people to get REALLY pissed off...I've never understood why...it's a zombie apocalypse, we are gonna die.
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Post by Sir Fred of Etruria on Feb 28, 2007 23:28:41 GMT -5
Ah, but there is a wonderful almost yin/yang balance to it all. The zombies need no help to stand-up but they need help to kill. The humans need help to stand-up but they need no help to kill. Zombies can win, humans can survive. This is the way of Malton.
And IAmRisen, this sounds like a grand plan. Maybe the Many, or the old RRF could've pulled it off, but todays zombies have short attention spans and communicate via scent-death or they speak in death rattle about ar-gazmz and brabagz.
Another wonderful offshoot of your scheme. How will the PKers adjust to have fun in this new environment ? If you get the game population up to 90% will the humans get a new weapon ?
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Post by Lachryma on Feb 28, 2007 23:36:42 GMT -5
Maybe the Many, or the old RRF could've pulled it off, but todays zombies have short attention spans and communicate via scent-death or they speak in death rattle about ar-gazmz and brabagz. And when I first started playing UD, we walked uphill both ways to our favorite mall, we had to carry our generators on our heads, and we got hit on the knuckles if we talked back to our reviver. Seriously though, this is the generation of zeds that invented X:00 and sacked Caiger fething Mall.
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Post by jleggitt on Mar 1, 2007 0:34:44 GMT -5
Just as an aside what's to stop the Pro survivor population from creating a bunch of alts that they want and trying to retake the NT from simplying creating a bunch of alts and mass charging the NT until they manage to take one back and start cranking out as many revives as they can for those moments that NT would be operational. ...I'm sorry, I couldn't understand that. Would you mind clarifying? Yeah that was written rather badly sorry I will try and clairfy, I was saying that pro survivors could simply create alts that they could throw at an NT facility in waves of people to capture and then hold the NT facility yes many of the alts may die but they are alts who cares. Once capturing the facility they could then crank out as many revives as possible before they facility was taken back.
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Post by Sir Fred of Etruria on Mar 1, 2007 0:49:07 GMT -5
Seriously though, this is the generation of zeds that invented X:00 and sacked Caiger fething Mall. Hellz yes, you sacked the Caiger. That was an awesome task accomplished by a few hundred zombies. What Mr.Risen is proposing is teamwork of a few thousand zombies. I like his plan. It's the best plan to put more mind bending terror into the city of Malton. I am just concerned about the human aspect. The best part of this game has always been the psychological angle.
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Post by blue tigers on Mar 1, 2007 2:09:09 GMT -5
Brilliant plan. Either this will force Kevan to implement the "one-IP-one-character" rule this game is in dire need of, or he will have to close shop on the ghastly shadow of a corpse this game has become due to open zerging. Unfortunately, the anti-zerg rule spirit has been so throughly trampled by the community embracing large scale alt abusing, aka zerging, that I can only see the latter as the (non) future. And what better finale for this sorrow story than a last orgy of alt abuse?
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