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Post by Noah on Mar 2, 2009 15:45:41 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong, I love classical and world music stylings, but if they don't have some kick-ass heavy rock for the aliens to head-bang too I'm disappointed.
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Post by Padre Romero on Mar 2, 2009 21:03:30 GMT -5
this was in 1977, your options are pretty limited.
Hell, in 20 years, you'll probably be able to buy a transmitter powerful enough for the aliens to hear at a supermarket, then you can beam 'em anything you want.
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Post by Noah on Mar 2, 2009 21:25:41 GMT -5
Of course, that whole project is assuming the aliens have audio-like sensing abilities. For all we know they may have no audio sensory abilities, like the blind-cave fish but with ears.
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Post by Padre Romero on Mar 2, 2009 21:36:24 GMT -5
well, it's a fair assumption they'll still have some way to detect radio waves, and interpret the data encoded within...
If they don't have a math skillz and are totally ignorant to the most effective means of information transfer in the universe (electromagnetic force) that we've found, we're probably not gonna have much to say to each other.
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Post by Tovarisch Khrushchev on Mar 4, 2009 22:39:24 GMT -5
You women wouldn't know how to count to a million if the concept fucked you in the ass.
Keep counting swine!
You'll have to excuse me, I'm very irate.
Hello Padre, been a while. Hows life?
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Post by Noah on Mar 5, 2009 6:11:02 GMT -5
and are totally ignorant to the most effective means of information transfer in the universe (electromagnetic force) that we've found Exactly, that we've found. There may be far more effective means of information transfer than that, we just don't know how yet, such as bioloogical transfer (encoding within DNA). Imagine the human DNA strand. A complete set of the entire code of how to build a human is inside (nearly) every cell within the body. Imagine how much data we could store if we had a means of filing data on the DNA strand and reading that data. We could have hundreds of thousands of gigabytes on a disc no larger than the point of a pen. |
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Post by Padre Romero on Mar 5, 2009 13:13:33 GMT -5
there's a big difference between "Efficient" and "size effective".
For instance, you can store all that biological information on the head of a pin, but how do you get it to where it needs to be, express mail? catapults? juicing even something as low mass the head of a pin up to the speed of light isn't nearly as energy-efficient as simply beaming the information on a radio wave, and a wave of something on the upper end of the spectrum, like a gamma ray, could actually relay almost as much information as you've described in a reasonably short message.
But the real obstacle to using anything but radio waves to talk is that both the sender and the receiver need to have a solid grasp of the medium. We obviously can't use any method that hasn't been invented yet, and the aliens aren't going to be able to intercept and decode anything on a medium they're ignorant of.
Radio communication is, therefore, just about the only method of communication available to us because, as a nearly ubiquitous phenomenon in the universe, astral travelers should have heard of it. It's hard to imagine talking to a being that had no knowledge of mathematics as we understand them or electromagnetic energy as we use it...we wouldn't be able to have much of a conversation. Which is why SETI keeps an eye out mainly for radio signals containing mathematical messages
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Post by Angel on Mar 5, 2009 20:28:42 GMT -5
and are totally ignorant to the most effective means of information transfer in the universe (electromagnetic force) that we've found Exactly, that we've found. There may be far more effective means of information transfer than that, we just don't know how yet, such as bioloogical transfer (encoding within DNA). Imagine the human DNA strand. A complete set of the entire code of how to build a human is inside (nearly) every cell within the body. Imagine how much data we could store if we had a means of filing data on the DNA strand and reading that data. We could have hundreds of thousands of gigabytes on a disc no larger than the point of a pen. I stopped reading when you first mentioned DNA as a signal. I kept thinking "Ender's Game..." |
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Post by Padre Romero on Mar 5, 2009 20:54:06 GMT -5
DNA is not remarkably efficient...
I mean, if size is really your thing, you can just punch atom-sized holes in a sheet of Tungsten or encode things onto the spin of tau neutrinos, or somethin like that.
Whatever the medium, it needs to be something an alien lifeform can readily intercept and decode, Radio is by far the best for that.
The golden record is a fair bit worse, but if your requirement is "thing we can clip onto a space probe to communicate with aliens", it's hard to do much better, especially in the 1970's
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Post by winka on Mar 5, 2009 23:26:39 GMT -5
Waaay too nerdy for me to follow.... Hell, I still don't even believe in radio much less TV and Wi- Fi. All these waves floating around from one place to another.... how do they know were to go? Its magik I tell ya. Besides everyone knows the twinkling stars are just billions of silicon based life forms emiting laser light conversations  |
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Post by Argo on Mar 6, 2009 0:55:41 GMT -5
It's like Morse Code but shiny! Where's that laser pointer... I want to talk!
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Post by Noah on Mar 6, 2009 6:08:17 GMT -5
I always thought stars were mirrors reflecting the light from those giant skylight things they have at Hollywood movie openings.
Just trying to get this thing back to the stupidity which rules the majority of the thread.
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Post by Padre Romero on Mar 6, 2009 9:39:46 GMT -5
stars are incandescent balls of gas that emit light which slows down over time. The longer the universe is around, the slower light moves...
this totally makes sense because it can explain why the universe is only 6,000 years old...light from stars that are a billion "light years" away really made most of its journey in about 2,000 years.
Thus, dinosaurs and humans lived at the same time
carbon dating is an elaborate hoax devised by godless scientists
and evolution is a filthy lie used to turn our children into homosexuals
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Post by winka on Mar 6, 2009 14:03:08 GMT -5
Thus, dinosaurs and humans lived at the same time carbon dating is an elaborate hoax devised by godless scientists and evolution is a filthy lie used to turn our children into homosexuals ;D It seems incredible that these loony "explanations" have persisted so long |
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Post by Padre Romero on Mar 6, 2009 15:14:44 GMT -5
I'm a science historian, among my specialties are the death of geocentrism, the shift from alchemy to chemistry, and the rise of creationism in the late 19th, early 20th century. I can actually argue from these guy's positions quite well, provided my opponent isn't a geologist or astronomer...these arguments have persisted for so long because it is no longer a social requirement that one learn as much as possible...the split between science and the humanities (and science into its many branches), usually championed as the social force that caused the scientific revolution, is actually responsible for a lot of the pseudoscientific crap that floats around to this day. People can now get MBA's , Medical Doctorates, and engineering degrees without learning the fundamentals of Popperian Deductive science (what most people would call "The scientific method"). Which allows them to speak with authority on their own tiny segment of science while totally ignoring the bigger picture...I, as a historian with a minor background in geology, routinely snipe down aerospace engineers on basic physics. in short, you get this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salem_hypothesis |
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