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Post by asshole doctor™ on Mar 13, 2007 20:40:22 GMT -5
way to go wulfgar. why don;t you give ris some more good ideas!
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Post by Prisonner Of Today on Mar 13, 2007 21:25:46 GMT -5
Oh, give me a cup of the good old stuff, and a wench to warm me covers!
Sorry, Pluto made me do it.
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Post by swiers on May 4, 2007 14:31:34 GMT -5
Back to the original question...
I have a level 41 alt who mostly does revives. He's got a bounty on his head. Stocking up on ammo is both a waste of time for him, and dangerous (bounty hunters love to go stock up on ammo). So he carries a shit load of syringes, a good whack of FAK's, and BOTH an ax and a knife. (And no, he doesn't have a flak jacket. I actually dropped it- does no good vs zombies, and if I'm in an area with enough breathers to get bountied or PKed, its time to move on to somewhere less civilized where they actually need help.) Obviously he COULD use a pistol, but I just don't want to. So for me, the original question is one I;ve dealt with directly for some time.
It turns out that the "which is better, ax or knife" question is exactly the same as "which is better, teeth or claws". In both cases, it depends on the situation. Normally the ax is better (especially if you are low on APs, and using an ax to kill, you will be). BUT, if your target has only 1, 2, or 4 HPs left, the knife comes out- its better every time. If your target has 5 or more HPs left, or has 3 HPs exactly, the ax still wins out. All other cases can be reduced to combinations of these two. In effect, the knife is a "coup de grace" weapon for certain low (1,2,4) HP targets. I usually beat them down under 10 HPs with the ax, then consider using the knife vs how many AP's I have left. For example, if they have 7 HPs left, I'll try to hit them once with the ax, and twice with the knife. If 8, I go with two from the ax, one from the knife. And obviously if I'm really low on APs, I run away. Of course, the better option for me is just not to have to kill at all. I'm perfectly happy to combat revive in many cases, or even to move on to another building. Attacking a zombie is often NOT the best way to deal with it, especially in an area where they outnumber survivors.
BTW, the situation for zombies with bite vs claws is quite similar, but a bit more complex due to the consideration of Tangling Grasp, Infection, and Digestion. Suffice to say, bite attacks are a lot more useful than most people think they are. I always throw in one or two as "optimizers", he aim basically being to take a target to EXACTLY zero HPs, while benefiting from "Tangling Grasp" as often as possible.
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Post by leah on May 4, 2007 14:42:51 GMT -5
*twitch*
I agree with many of your points, but don't combat revive. There are thousands of reasons not to, listed in various areas of this forum.
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Post by Lord Wulfgar on May 4, 2007 14:46:26 GMT -5
*twitch* I agree with many of your points, but don't combat revive. There are thousands of reasons not to, listed in various areas of this forum. Agreed, CRing is NEVER a good tactic.
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Post by asshole doctor™ on May 5, 2007 0:53:21 GMT -5
plus we kill for stupidity like that.
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Post by Padre Romero on May 5, 2007 0:55:30 GMT -5
*twitch* I agree with many of your points, but don't combat revive. There are thousands of reasons not to, listed in various areas of this forum. Agreed, CRing is NEVER a good tactic. Wulf...be VERY careful about using the word NEVER... there are LOTS of good times to CR, they don't happen, OFTEN...but stating that something is NEVER a good tactic is setting yourself up to fall...all we have to do to prove you wrong is show one instance where it is a good tactic.
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Post by Lord Wulfgar on May 5, 2007 1:11:02 GMT -5
Agreed, CRing is NEVER a good tactic. Wulf...be VERY careful about using the word NEVER... there are LOTS of good times to CR, they don't happen, OFTEN...but stating that something is NEVER a good tactic is setting yourself up to fall...all we have to do to prove you wrong is show one instance where it is a good tactic. I suppose so Padre, like reviving an all zed skill player is a pretty easy way to eliminate the threat. But still even when CRing works the syringe would have been better used on an ally.
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Post by Animatronic Daemon Skwerral on May 5, 2007 2:24:31 GMT -5
Theres alot of... "group think" when it comes to the CR, where alot of stuff is stated as a talking point with no real thought given to it. From Wiki
assuming there are people to be revived, however generally priority should be given to allies, then CR if its that case of being over ran immediately
assuming your just like Halliday was in Whatmore and tossing those things out like a monkey with silo filled with turds. You always scan first.
If they want that revive they will get that revive no matter what... change group affiliation... go to a safe sub where youre not known as a problem... their zombie group can even have revivers within their group for that situation... theyll get flaks, crobars, and human skills no matter what in the long run. CR'ed people are just a drop in the bucket pk'ing when you compare that to actual full time pk'ers... it cost the same to pk as does to kill a zombie...
4th isnt worth repeating as we should all be aware of how to EXP farm.
I think someone should go update the CR page on the Wiki
Swiers does what I usually do... FAK's Needles Axe Knife and some other novelties i just personally like. I only take weapons when i want to PK someone. It really comes down to the situation. alot of the times no one is in need of a rev... Keep in mind that zombies cant sack if theyre not a zombie... they can go get guns and things but that still ultimately deters them from sacking a position... i spend less AP and inventory searching out needles than weapons... same time i keep higher versatility by having needles and faks... you blow through ammo pretty fast... so youll most likely have to restock sooner if handling every zombie with bullets... youll also blow through alot of ap Axing them...
the best example to CR is a Bullet Spounge situation. back in like novemberish when we firsst went into caiger area the place was swarming with bullet spounges. should i: A) Kill them with Axes (20 AP + 1slot) B) gather fire arms that take up alot of space (over 10 + slots for fire arms and clips) C) CR an Alt that was never meant to do more than to hold a sack (10 AP + 1AP for scan + 1 slot)
i really dont see Combat Reviving as genocide. we'll always need trenchcoaters to gun them down... however it comes down to taking territory ultimately... and the CR is effective at putting them down and outside the cades and away from a sack... and i think thats worth some of us taking an occassional pk.
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Post by renton on May 5, 2007 3:11:05 GMT -5
Stocking up on ammo is both a waste of time for him, and dangerous (bounty hunters love to go stock up on ammo). I understand your character isn't in need of very much ammo, but don't forget that you can do ammo runs into malls. Mall drugstores are also the best place to stock up on fak's and if you run into a mall with ap in the high 40s you'll be able to grab about 20 faks or a bunch of guns 'n ammo (no not the newsmagazine you inbred) before doing the shuffle and two sidesteps back to your lowprofile safehouse...
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Vecusum
Full Member
Though I am not naturally honest, I am so sometimes by chance.
Posts: 205
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Post by Vecusum on May 5, 2007 9:00:09 GMT -5
the best example to CR is a Bullet Spounge situation. back in like novemberish when we firsst went into caiger area the place was swarming with bullet spounges. should i: A) Kill them with Axes (20 AP + 1slot) B) gather fire arms that take up alot of space (over 10 + slots for fire arms and clips) C) CR an Alt that was never meant to do more than to hold a sack (10 AP + 1AP for scan + 1 slot) i really dont see Combat Reviving as genocide. we'll always need trenchcoaters to gun them down... however it comes down to taking territory ultimately... and the CR is effective at putting them down and outside the cades and away from a sack... and i think thats worth some of us taking an occassional pk. You forgot to mention how it is actually more AP efficient to CR on entry and dump then it is to Shoot and dump. Shooting takes at the very least 12 AP with a shotgun and 7 with a pistol, for loading and shooting, and on a bad day it could fail miserably. CRing, while obnoxious and in many cases a sure way to get killed, only takes 11AP, plus the one for the dump which you pay with either method, and you know that you will hit. Anyway, as many have said and any zombie would tell you, in a seige FAKing the meatshield is one of the best things you can do, simply because they already wasted a large portion of AP on barricading and because they deal so little damage that a survivor with the first aid skill can easily stop the death all-together. Of course all of that is assuming you barricaded first, if you haven't you're only costing them 1 AP or a small wait.
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Post by Padre Romero on May 5, 2007 11:06:05 GMT -5
Well, it seems most of you are already fully aware of the situations when CRing works. I'm glad some folks have the guts to admit it.
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Post by Artaxerxes/SweetIrony on May 5, 2007 14:23:33 GMT -5
Knives are useful for taking down barricades!! I've used mine often enough on the Quartly. People somehow still think the crowbar is better, but it's not. So if you're worried about people overbarricading, that's what you'd want the knife for... otherwise use the axe!
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Post by Animatronic Daemon Skwerral on May 6, 2007 0:32:17 GMT -5
thats interesting to know. i think crobar doubles the hit rate against cades. and thats equal to the axe. but i didnt know that about the knife.
also they nerf shotguns from when i was last here, it looks like so they take more space, which means more space being used for less AP dishing out and having to restock sooner. However we'll always need the gunners in either case.
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Vecusum
Full Member
Though I am not naturally honest, I am so sometimes by chance.
Posts: 205
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Post by Vecusum on May 6, 2007 8:02:37 GMT -5
Crowbar doesn't get the 50% reduction against cades that everything else does.
And shotguns are the same as hey have always been, taking up two spaces, the only problem with them is how much AP they take to load and how unuseful it is unless you have a large number of pre loaded shotguns.
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