|
|
Post by Padre Romero on Sept 4, 2007 14:37:57 GMT -5
You get a few of the common ones a lot: "Is the answer to this question no?", "I'm lying right now?", Any one of zeno's paradoxes...
Here are two less common ones, phrased in UD-zombie type settings...and one about suits...while commonly identified as a paradox, I'm not sure that it is, but it comes up a lot at my business school.
All zombies eat brains (for the sake of argument). It would follow then that all non-brain-eating things are non-zombies. So: When I come upon Kyndrid eating a hamburger, do I become more certain that all zombies eat brains?
(This is commonly called the Raven paradox)
I've been targeted by a PK-er. He's posted on the forum that he'll kill me sometime in the next ten days at server reset, but the given day will be entirely a suprise...only he knows it. I won't know until server reset that I've been shot.
Upon hearing this, I happily realize that I won't be killed.
The Reason being: He can't kill me on day #10...I'd know on day nine that only one day remains...thinking backwards, I can't be killed on day #9, #8, #7...ect...
course, the PKer can convincingly argue that since I'm so sure my death isn't gonna happen, it'll SURE be a suprise when he guns me down on day 3...the real epistemological paradox here is, what is a suprise?
(this is commonly called the hangman paradox)
Ron Burgundy is going out for a night on the town with some classy ladies. He need to rent a sports car, a hotel room, and a suit. A sports car that sells for 50,000 rents for maybe 1% of it's price: 500, an upscale hotel room that would "sell" for 10,000 rents for maybe 1% of it's price, 100 . A suit that would sell for 1,000 dollars rents for 20% of it's price: 200 dollars. Why?
(This is a common economics question, I'm not sure it has a name)
|
|
|
|
Post by Artaxerxes/SweetIrony on Sept 5, 2007 1:32:21 GMT -5
That second one is the reason Jon can never propose to me... he has a limited number of opportunities and it has to be a "surprise"  About the third one.... the suit won't last as long? |
|
|
|
Post by Magatsu Taito on Sept 5, 2007 10:27:06 GMT -5
I don't like Zeno, he only came up with lots of Paradoxes to support the claim that eveything is the same, that nothing canges. And it wasn't even his own idea that that was the case, it was Pormenides. And since I refuse to belive that eveything is the same all of the time, I'll also refrain from answearing his paradoxes, since their only reason is to prove the fact wich I happen to disagree with....
That might be the hardest sentence I've written in english so far. Enjoy!
|
|
|
|
Post by Hec Scrivener on Sept 9, 2007 23:45:12 GMT -5
Problem: Reality doesn't give us the luxury of ignoring logical truths we don't like.
|
|
|
|
Post by Padre Romero on Sept 10, 2007 8:43:38 GMT -5
Yay! Hec's back to make us all feel like the world's about to cave out from underneath us.
|
|
Vecusum
Full Member
Though I am not naturally honest, I am so sometimes by chance.
Posts: 205
|
Post by Vecusum on Sept 10, 2007 13:57:48 GMT -5
You think too much. Stop thinking so much and all answers you ever desired will come to you.
|
|
|
|
Post by Padre Romero on Sept 10, 2007 17:58:59 GMT -5
Vecusum's spot on concerning one of them at least
Those who declair the Raven Paradox as more or less solved give the diagnosis that people think about one step of the problem too hard. Anyone care to take a stab at which step's flawed?
Zeno's paradoxes are different fish...a lot of very clever people have triumphantly declaired them solved, but there's a few unresolved issues that remain.
Most folks contend that the hangman paradox is a problem only because our definition of "suprise" is illogical or vauge, but people don't like clarifying their terms, so this one's gonna haunt us for a while.
Has anyone heard of the elevator paradox?
|
|
Ed Harken
Full Member
Dammit! Who typed a question mark on the Teleprompter?
Posts: 133
|
Post by Ed Harken on Sept 10, 2007 21:02:32 GMT -5
Problem: Reality doesn't give us the luxury of ignoring logical truths we don't like. Solution: Scotch. Has anyone heard of the elevator paradox? Is that the one that points out Helter Skelter would have been a big hit if it hadn't been for those murders? |
|
|
|
Post by Magatsu Taito on Sept 11, 2007 11:01:57 GMT -5
The problem with most Paradoxes seems to be that they just skip reality and go straight for the logics. And Ed Harken: I love you man! In a Maddox kinda way... But still! The only Paradox I've heard of so far is the one about Achilles and the turtle, it's truly anoying in much the same way that zen buddhism is. The only exception is that the paradoxes are meant to prove something, the koans of zen buddhism don't have to prove anything, they don't even have to mean anything. Actually I think I'll stick with zen buddhism, logic is too illogical for me... And to counter Hec, I only dislike Zeno since he wanted to prove that nothing ever changes. I don't agree with that view, but it also depends on what kinds of changes he was talking about. If what he was refering to mater only, I agree that he was right, but the shape of the matter shifts from time to time, which I would deffinelty call changes. And Padre, I apologies if i came of as rude. Please do tell about the elevator paradox, I'll give it a try, even if I make a fool out of myself.  |
|
|
|
Post by Artaxerxes/SweetIrony on Sept 11, 2007 13:12:06 GMT -5
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose!
|
|
|
|
Post by Padre Romero on Sept 11, 2007 14:35:13 GMT -5
The problem with most Paradoxes seems to be that they just skip reality and go straight for the logics. And Ed Harken: I love you man! In a Maddox kinda way... But still! The only Paradox I've heard of so far is the one about Achilles and the turtle, it's truly anoying in much the same way that zen buddhism is. The only exception is that the paradoxes are meant to prove something, the koans of zen buddhism don't have to prove anything, they don't even have to mean anything. Actually I think I'll stick with zen buddhism, logic is too illogical for me... And to counter Hec, I only dislike Zeno since he wanted to prove that nothing ever changes. I don't agree with that view, but it also depends on what kinds of changes he was talking about. If what he was refering to mater only, I agree that he was right, but the shape of the matter shifts from time to time, which I would deffinelty call changes. And Padre, I apologies if i came of as rude. Please do tell about the elevator paradox, I'll give it a try, even if I make a fool out of myself. Not rude at all, there are NO rules here. Hec's gonna have some problems with you "not agreeing" with zeno though |
|
|
|
Post by Magatsu Taito on Sept 12, 2007 10:40:39 GMT -5
Well, if it IS the same zeno we're talking about that is, from what I've understood, there were quite a few of them in Ancient Greece. But I don't really care too much, the view on logics changes depending on which philosophical school you chose to follow, and since I don't follow one before I feel that I know enough to be sure about the choise (and I'm not a skeptic, though I aprove of many of their idea), perhaps I shouldn't be mouthing of about stuff like that?... though I do like mouthing. Oh, no rules ey? Well, I though I sounded rude at least, and I do feel that if you percive yourself as rude you should apologies. I'm glad you didn't get offende though. And did you decide against the Elevator paradox or something? I'm getting curious about it now, just because you didn't post it  |
|
|
|
Post by Padre Romero on Sept 12, 2007 12:25:22 GMT -5
oh...it's not a mathematical or logical, and it's immediately apparent what is really going on if you think about it enough, but it leads to some pretty absurd conclusions at first glance. You also may have personally noticed this paradox in action if you live in a tall building: If you live on the third floor of a 30 story apartment, you'll notice quite quickly that when you call for an elevator, it's usually going down If you live on the 27th floor of the apartment, you'll notice quite quickly that it's usually going up. At first glance, what's going on is obvious: elevators are being assembled on the the 15th floor, and sent UP to the 30th, and DOWN to the basment, to be torn apart. The math behind it is quite interesting: there's a good link here www.kwansei.ac.jp/hs/z90010/english/sugakuc/toukei/elevator/elevator.htmand this crazy math stuff reminds me of the monty hall problem, anyone heard of that? |
|
Ed Harken
Full Member
Dammit! Who typed a question mark on the Teleprompter?
Posts: 133
|
Post by Ed Harken on Sept 12, 2007 13:26:56 GMT -5
Actually yes. I was recently curious about determining a comparitive probability of being seen by a zombie indoors as out and musing that montey might involve himself in the problem. I understand If you are where the zombies are your more likely to be seen. But without a knowledge of the distribution of zombies one should be able to deduce if it is for instance 4 times more likely or 10 time more likely or no more likely at all to be seen outdoors from a generic Malton wide perspective.
Does your remaining still or choosing to move have an effect the probability or is it solely dependent on the zombie (observer)?
As probability is all about events/outcomes would your choices multiply/add into this or only the zombies choices?
|
|
|
|
Post by Artaxerxes/SweetIrony on Sept 12, 2007 16:07:33 GMT -5
and this crazy math stuff reminds me of the monty hall problem, anyone heard of that? I love that one!! I forget which class it was that we learned about that. |
|
